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Post by margarine on Feb 14, 2012 21:28:32 GMT -5
At the risk of seeming disagreeable, I don't think Lori is the main driver behind the declining ratings. Yes, everything that has been said about this character not being developed, etc., is all true. But had the writing remained strong, with the elements from S1 that made it Must-See TV for me, I would have still enjoyed the show. As it is, there were some episodes I just couldn't watch. I agree with Chazak about the subpar writing this season. H50 has added some new producers/writers this season, and I don't know if that's the problem or if the executive producers just don't know what direction they want to take with this show. Storylines were too drawn out, to the point I became irritated. I really liked the relationship between these main characters, and that has been largely missing this season. That seems to be the issue when I talk with people around the office about the show. Another thing, I realize these actors are a few hours from LA, but when AOL was recently in LA to promote Aussie commerce, I kept looking to see if he would do some H50 promotion. He didn't seem to do any. I think the show could use some major promotion from its stars, especially him. The mag interviews he does just don't reach the number of people that a visit to a daytime or latenight talkshow would. Maybe I've missed some promotion, though, so I'm offering that caveat. Keira, I don't think you're being disagreeable at all, and you have a point. Lori Weston is only a symptom of what's been wrong this season. Even though she's the biggest problem, it's possible that she's also leading a tide of difficulties behind the scenes. Many times we've speculated that a casting couch was involved. That would be a case of bad judgement, which would make it very easy to believe that someone had taken leave of his senses in more than one area. (Note: I'm being very - mm, how do they call it? - circumspect - here. You can fill in the blanks.) All through the season we've had bad writing, starting with Hoochie, and you may be right about changes in staff, but in the last couple of months we've seen improvements, as if somebody remembered last season's good moments. We're still speculating whether CBS, or the studio, or who, was listening to us and dragged his sorry ass back from the brink made decisions that led to the improvements. If life was fair I'd be thinking that Petey saw the light himself, and the nightmare is truly over. I don't think life is that fair though. We'll see. You also have a valid point about the stars promoting the show. I'd love to see it myself, but unless the studio forces them out there it looks like this is just the way it is. I have no doubt that Alex resists making appearances. He's done plenty for his other shows and movies, but maybe he thinks he's put in his time, and he hates being on display, certainly for red carpet events and probably for promos as well. You know Scott's temperamental about some stuff too, and Grace Park, whether or not she's a good choice, isn't cut out for it. That leaves Daniel, who has made some appearances here and there, and will be on Live with Kelly next Monday morning. He's a good guy, game for anything. As for magazine interviews, well, geez, it appears Alex is happy to show off his looks but the kind of interview that would reach a lot of people - you mean like People, I presume - I've wondered about that too. He's got women all over the world drooling over him, but somehow he just hasn't caught on like Ryan whatshisname - or Justin Timberlake, or fill in the blank. He doesn't go out to enough hot clubs, or get into enough trouble, to get the general public whipped up to get any little tidbit of information about him. I don't get it, frankly, who could pass up a babe like that? He wants to be taken seriously as an actor, sure, but Clooney does okay...  |
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keira
New H50Reboot Ohana Member
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Post by keira on Feb 14, 2012 21:58:26 GMT -5
Thanks, Margarine. I enjoyed reading your post and am glad my thoughts weren't so way out there as I thought they might be. You're right about DDK, I've seen him promoting the show and I always enjoy seeing him on things. He just always seems so nice. Yes, in the past AOL has done lots of promos, and I understand he can't do tons of this type of thing on the mainland. But I saw him several years ago on some late night show and that's how I first became a Moonlight fan. I tuned in after seeing him, and he might be able to get a few extra viewers this way for H50. A couple weeks ago Simon Baker was on tv every time I turned around. His show was losing steam, too, and now the ratings are up. One could argue that's due to the rising fortunes of his leadin, POI, but maybe some is due to his hard work promoting his show. I know, though, that there's no use in me worrying about it, but shows have to deliver in a lot of different ways to get us customers to continue buying what they're selling. Thanks, again, though, Margarine. You had interesting things to say.
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Post by darksea on Feb 14, 2012 22:06:56 GMT -5
Ok, now take a look at the larger picture of how the problems lead back to Lori.
When you are writing for a show, you generally allot a certain amount of pages per character, per series of characters. So for example, you devote two pages to Chin and Danny together, etc. Now as you go up the food chain, you have to have that much more exposure. The same writers that were writing last year for the most part are still there, they were writing the same thing, but they had to add Lori.
Now, when you shoot these pages, your overage of script to the 43 minutes that make it on screen is dramatically different. You are talking anywhere from 8 to 12 hours of shot film to fill 43 minutes. In order to fill her contract, Lori was injected into those scenes to forfill her paid obligations.
When you add an extra person like that, something takes it in the hiney. That generally takes the form of actual plotline and characterization. The connecting dots are left out on the editing room floor. It's not honestly all that different from last year, where there were several plotlines that had a WTF element to it, and come to find out it was left on the cutting room floor. And by the way, what you see in the S1 DVD isn't even half of what is cut out.
Take Lori out of the equation, they may be able to fill in more with more plotline rather than giving her bait to chew on. As they backed her off, more elements of the stuff we love started to appear.
As for Alex and his appearances. Alex has always been majorly shy and holds back from interviews. He's got OCD and ADHD, and has a difficult time during interviews. He honestly can't stay still and has to constantly watch what he says. He never really did major promotions for Moonlight, Three Rivers or the Back-Up plan. He did some for S1, but in many cases,he ducked out of the limelight then too. Their publicists have been dealing with a lot this year, and they just haven't really had the time to throw their people out there. Because the show is shot in Hawaii, it is difficult to schedule promotional events inbetween shooting timees. AOL is not allowed to say anything about Hawaii Five O, and neither are any of the rest of them, unless they are cleared to, and since we are living off the cliffhanger, there is going to be a semi-gag order on them.
As for the ratings, yeah, I think Smash is going to lose its luster, but unfortunately it has done its damage. I wouldn't say that it has to do with Lori or not, H50 was doing just fine before, but being after the The Voice and taking in a relative share of the audience, that could be more consistent with the actual viewership numbers. Some people are into the Glee/Fame hybrids, and H50 later. Promotion won't help all that much, either you are going to watch, or you are going to turn the channel.
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Post by Diana on Feb 15, 2012 9:35:40 GMT -5
Here are the final numbers Live numbers from Monday night.
NBC Smash 2.8 (18-49 Demo) 8.06 (Million Viewers)
CBS Hawaii Five-0 2.7 (18-49 Demo) 9.70 (Million Viewers)
ABC Castle 2.0 (18-49 Demo) 8.86 (Million Viewers)
It appears that H50 got adjusted up slightly, while both Smash and Castle was adjusted down slightly. Though really there wasn't much overall change.
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Post by biochemgeek on Feb 15, 2012 10:10:25 GMT -5
Question, Di. What are the adjustments that happen in between what you first posted, and the last post? Do they do a recount or something? Different analysis?
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Post by darksea on Feb 15, 2012 10:17:34 GMT -5
Certain markets either report in, recount, or they make adjustments for other programs that may have overrun their time slot in some markets. For example, New Mexico is one of those that causes adjustments, because their time slot actually starts 2 minutes early.
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Post by biochemgeek on Feb 15, 2012 10:20:26 GMT -5
Thanks, DS.
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Post by Dannos Dani on Feb 15, 2012 16:18:54 GMT -5
Keira and chazak and marg - Bori was only part of the problem, agreed.
I think because the show didn't get the huge ratings they expected, PL set out to make a whammy season 2, and has just put too much into it - and bringing in a completely useless new character in the midst of everything else was a huge mistake. We had Joe coming in as an irregular regular - that should have been enough, at least he had (and still has) a purpose that leads directly into a big storyline.Making Bori so "important" took time that could have been much better spent explaining things or expanding them a bit. Plus, creating a new character, keeping her on for 15 episodes, all to show that the Gov REALLY means business.... overkill. He could have threatened to disband them or fired Chin for an episode or something, and it would have had more ooooomph than Bori's Boring finale.
The whole let's make the team sad and not trusting each other and angsty just didn't work out - I don't think anyone really understood the whole concept (since PL expects his audience to ass-ume and imagine way too much), because it wasn't ever spelled out. We microdiscuss everything here, so someone is bound to hit the nail on the head and explain why things work - but the average viewer who just watches doesn't have that luxury, and they're going to be all "WTF, why is the team not supporting Kono when they think she's in trouble???".
And the way he's changing the characters - no one who didn't watch season 1 has a clue what these guys were really like - Danno is a total jerk this season (except for his love for Grace, who wasn't really even seen before 215 so there's no real background for his immense love for her).
Then there's all the complicated action in every episode - don't know about you, but I watch TV to unwind and have fun. I don't want to have to work at it too much. I don't mind them doing things that would never work in real life (of course taking away inmmunity got rid of a lot of that, another minus). H50 can get so complicated that we need to take notes from season 1 to really understand what's going on in the background and why.
They got a lot of work ahead of them... maybe they should just try to simplify.
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Post by Musicfreak on Feb 15, 2012 16:22:06 GMT -5
This is scaring me. I don't know how to react.
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Post by davilarose on Feb 15, 2012 18:08:47 GMT -5
This is scaring me. I don't know how to react.  |
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Post by margarine on Feb 15, 2012 18:43:02 GMT -5
I keep wondering why everybody's depending on that contract. Granted, it's Petey's deal to handle and there's every reason to think he'll bring her back. But the fact that there's another episode on the contract doesn't dictate that she has to be onscreen. Given I don't know how these things are written, maybe it's possible that it does dictate, but I don't think that happens. Why would a showrunner or producer give an actor the right to tell him she has to appear? I think it's up to her to show up and get in front of the camera, but she doesn't get to say what he does with the film. I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist until there's more to go on. (Darksea, this would not be a time to dash my hopes just for the fun of it.)
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Post by Diana on Feb 15, 2012 19:07:40 GMT -5
I think it is more of the fact that CBS isn't going to pay for something and not get something in return. As far as they are concerned she signed a contact to star in 16 episodes and she is going to darn well do that as they don't want to set a precedent that any other actor could use as an argument. I mean just look at what came out today on TVGuide.com about how Paget Brewster of Criminal Minds was treated by CBS. And remember that Criminal Minds's fan base nearly rioted outside of CBS to get Paget back on the show. Then add in the fact that apparently LG departure was on cordial terms between CBS, Lenkov and her, I can definitely see her coming back at least to fill out her contract unfortunately. I'm just hoping that LG will move on to other projects, so that she will be unavailable to return in any type of recurring basis. On the bright side though we at least know that this reduces the possibility of her being given a long term (multi-year) contract with the show for the moment and that there is at least a possibility that she will find another project she likes better and won't want to return to H50.
Paget Brewster to Exit Criminal Minds at the End of the Season
Feb 15, 2012 12:24 PM ET
by Joyce Eng
38 comments
Paget Brewster
Paget Brewster is leaving Criminal Minds again.
"After six wonderful years playing Emily Prentiss, I have decided it's time for me to move on," Brewster said in a statement. "As much as I will miss my Criminal Minds family, I am excited about the future and other opportunities."
Added showrunner and executive producer Erica Messer: "We were all sad to hear the news, but we respect and support any decision Paget wants to make. Personally, I'm a huge fan and will continue to be one wherever she goes."
Check out photos from Criminal Minds
This will be the second time Brewster has left the show. Last season, she chose to depart — asking the writers to kill off her character, Emily Prentiss — when CBS reduced her episode count and fired A.J. Cook. But because she still had a year left on her contract, Brewster had to film a cliff-hanger ending for Prentiss instead. CBS agreed to let Brewster shoot NBC's comedy pilot, My Life As an Experiment, but when it was not picked up, CBS rehired Brewster, along with Cook, last May.
Brewster told TVGuide.com last month that she was unaware of the extra year on her contract and was surprised when CBS exercised the option.
Criminal Minds' Paget Brewster: Prentiss and Hotch will have a "nice little moment"
"I shot a pilot and it didn't go, and then they said, 'You're back!' I had another year on my contract that I didn't know about, so I had to come back! I said, 'Hey, I kinda want an apology and maybe a raise.' And they were like, 'No, we'll sue you!'" she said. "The whole thing was, unfortunately, a mess. It was dumb. They thought they would save money by getting rid of us ... and in the end got both of us back."
Though her contract dictated her return, Brewster, who joined Minds in Season 2, said she was happy to come back and would sign on for next season "if it works out." According to Deadline, which first reported the news, she chose to leave after CBS and ABC Studios, which produces the show, denied her request to pursue a comedy project during pilot season.
Criminal Minds' A.J. Cook on JJ's big fight: You'll see how tough she is
Brewster admitted to us that she missed doing comedy. She played Kathy on Friends and has appeared on a number of sitcoms over the years, including Andy Richter Controls the Universe and Huff. She has also done voice work on American Dad! and King of the Hill and regularly participates in the comedy stage show Thrilling Adventure Hour.
"I love comedy. It's so much fun — not that [Minds] isn't — but it's just different," she said. "I would love to do another one in the future."
Will you be sad to see Brewster go (again)? What kind of send-off do you think she will get this time?
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Post by biochemgeek on Feb 15, 2012 19:19:58 GMT -5
It makes sense that they would bring her back one more time, since PL loves her and CBS would want to get something for their money. And I'm grudgingly preparing myself to endure her (hopefully) final episode. What I don't understand is why they might consider making her a recurring character afterwards. There seems to be a predominant dislike of her among fandom, to the point where the character's screentime was significantly reduced in the latter part of the season. Why would CBS allow PL to keep dredging up that anger longterm, by bringing her back after her current contract has been fulfilled? Does PL really have that much power? Am I overstating how much she is disliked? Was her screentime reduced for other reasons, and not because of negative fan reaction?
P.S. Di, thanks for the BTS info on Paget Brewster. I'll be sorry to see her go, I like her.
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Post by Diana on Feb 15, 2012 19:32:06 GMT -5
You know what really blow my mind is that people are coming out the woodwork at the moment and are saying "I didn't like Lori for the first 13 episodes, but she was starting grow on me in the last couple of episodes". Well, here is the thing her screen time was being reduced as they were inching her towards the door, hence why she as less annoying in the last couple of episodes. They didn't change the character, they just had her around less which freed up time during the episodes to include those things we love about the show that got cut to make room for her to beginning with.
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Post by Leni on Feb 15, 2012 19:37:22 GMT -5
I'm afraid that she is going to come back in the finale and save Steve from the real Shelbourn. Die doing it and then we have to hear about it for the next 5 seasons. On second thought, that is better than her sticking around as recurring.
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