Ratings of Ep. 204 - Mea Makamae

[Musicfreak]

So we were pretty even with Castle this week. And it looks like all the shows took another hit this week. Would baseball & football be to blame?

[Dannos Dani]

we beat Castle by a bit - I'm still confused as to how they calculate the 18-49 vs the overall viewers? Because overall we only beat castle by a bit, I'm not sure how big a gap the 2.1 for Castle vs 2.7 for HF0 is.

[scarlarose]

So, if I'm understanding the numbers correctly, 5-0 beat castle by 6-tenths in the 18-49 demographic area, but Castle beat 5-0 by just a tad in the million viewers area. Is this good or bad or neither because of everyone going down slightly in the ratings?

[darksea]

The ratings are not bad, but they are definitely slipping. There is hope, and there is the hope that eventually maybe there might be negotiation room for: you get rid of Lori, we will recruit viewers type of campaign.

The 18-49 thing is a good demographic, but it is not the most important thing, the overall viewers is what determines if the show is going to be renewed or not.

This is a perfect view of what that 'share' thing does to the numbers. House had a 2.7 share of less viewers. But had the same share as H-50. House had the better demographic, because it had a larger share of less people.

[darksea]

Even though it is not a percentage, because it is a lot more complex than that, the best way to describe it is using a percentage.

Say you have 10 million people watching a show. 2.3% of them are in the 18-49 range, .7% is 50-59. Shares work differently, because instead of being out of 100%, there is this mathematical formula from hell that basically goes up to 10.

But if you have 6 million people watching a show, and 2.3% of them are in that group, then basically, House beat on H50 though they shared a smilar demographic share.

[Dannos Dani]

Since I'm still basically lost, I will rely on you and Dianno to interpret the ratings for us each week and tell us if it's good or bad.
But even if I don't really get it, we did drop from the overall viewers, and even though Jools is doing some weird English happy dance, I don't think it's much reason to celebrate. A drop is a drop, and if it wasn't due to whatever kind of ball was being dropped/kicked/hit at the same time as our show, it's reason to worry. Especially since this was the best epi since the wonderfupa has been on.

[darksea]

Jools is an idiot who believes what she wants to believe, regardless of if its real or not. She's also stupid enough to think that just because TNT bought 3 seasons worth of Hawaii Five O that CBS did too, when that isn't the case either. 18-49 means that more advertisers are going to choke their hip little Chevy Cruises and Camaros down our throats. Total viewers is what the head corporation that puts out the show gives a snot about.

Overall viewers, Castle still beat H50 by a few hundred.

All the 18-49 share means is that there was a larger share of lesser viewers for Hawaii Five O. Compared to House, House had less vieweres, but a LOT more 18-49 year old viewers.

The positive here is that there was a drop, and House took a large chunk out of both Castle and Hawaii Five-O's butt because of its over-run, so once again, the ratings are too difficult to honestly and really determine solidly this week. Next week, providing nothing overruns drastically, then we should have a lot more solid baseline.

As for a 19% drop: that means that there has been a 19% drop of ratings from this time last year. And there has, because Hawaii Five-O started out hot, and then fizzled after Xmas and the Super Bowl.

[ateofi]

Oct 11, 2011 16:27:57 GMT -5 Diana said:

Here are the final numbers:

CBS Hawaii Five-0 2.7 (18-49 Demo) 10.070(Million Viewers)
FOX House 2.7 (18-49 Demo) 6.850(Million Viewers)
ABC Castle 2.1 (18-49 Demo) 10.230(Million Viewers)
NBC Prime Suspect -R 0.7 (18-49 Demo) 2.920(Million Viewers)

Thanks for these results. it looks like "Castle" ratings were not so good after all. As for H50 I'm also worried about this drop in ratings. I really cannot understand how people who declare themselves as fans of the show can abandon it after 2 episodes they don't like and becasue they don't like one character (Lori). That's beyond me. It took me the whole season 3 to give up on Chuck. Well, hopefully they will tune in again next week when Kono's story is resolved, also in episode 6 we will have a fight of Wo Fat with Joe.

[darksea]

Because people are fans of the Hawaii Five O, not the show that it has become. Remember, it's supposed to be entertainment. If you are not entertained, then you're not going to watch.

It's really not up to you to judge the criteria of who is a fan and who is not.

[darksea]

"Hawaii Five-O" loses viewers to sports broadcasts


By:The Associated Press | 10/12/11 2:44 PM
The Associated Press.


A big sports night is being blamed for stealing attention away from "Hawaii Five-O" despite a star-studded cast this week.

The CBS television drama had its lowest ratings of its second season on Monday as it competed with major league baseball playoffs and "Monday Night Football" for viewers.

The episode featured Oscar winner Patty Duke and Golden Globe winner Peter Fonda. The Honolulu Star-Advertiser reports that the show finished in second place during its time slot with about 10 million viewers. The week before, 11.2 million tuned in.

The drama is remake of the show about an elite crime-fighting team starring actors Alex O'Loughlin and Daniel Dae Kim.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: washingtonexaminer.com/entertainment/2011/10/hawaii-five-o-loses-viewers-sports-broadcasts#ixzz1adOheCpQ

[Musicfreak]

Figured it was sports to blame. Well, baseball ends this month if I'm not mistaken, so hopefully that will help.

[hollyladyyb]

Hi all. Joined here after seeing some of you over at the CBS boards last year. First of all I am glad to see Di and other familiar faces. Second I just wanted to say re the ratings - that it isn't overall viewers that matter it is the demo. CBS have been trying to get overall viewers to matter for years as they are a network that really skews old but they can't do it. The demo drives advertising (I worked in marketing for years) and therefore if you have two shows and one had lower overall viewers but higher demo that would stay over a show with higher viewers but lower demo.

HFO has had the highest ten pm demo of all the network shows for the first three weeks which is outstanding. Whether or not it will with the drop this week remains to be seen. But already CSI has had a huge drop this week (the only other ten pm show near HFO so far this year) and that was without sports or extra ten pm competition from Fox. It dropped down to 2.6.

The best and most accurate tv predictions for cancel and renewal is pretty much the Tvtn's renewal and cancel index. They've had the best success rate of any of those stats based forums - which is why they're so huge. But then they are both industry analysts so set the system up based on the thing that matters the most - the demo.

Overall audience does count of course but it is demo that brings in the bucks and at the end of the day that is all that matters for the network. Why would it matter what overall audience they have when they can't sell that to marketers?

So if CBS were going to cancel a show as of today it would not be HFO. HFO is straight after NCIS LA in the Demo. Shows doing worse in the demo are: all the CSI's. Unforgettable, POI, The Mentalist, Blue Bloods, The Good WIfe and some others.

In fact I would say that as of so far the two CBS shows in the most danger are POI and Unforgettable. You don't put a drama in your coveted Thursday 9 pm slot to get a 2.6

As a ten pm show HFO isn't expected to get the same demo as a 9pm. show. They market the shows in time slot trances to advertisers. It's why some Fox shows are huge hits despite not getting massive audiences - there demo is huge.

So this week HFO absolutely beat down Castle in the only category that really counts and it shared with House (which is pretty good as House is normally a bigger show than HFO).

We are doing as well Demo wise as Terra Nova! I think all in all so far- there is much to be happy for ratings wise. (As for Lori - diferent matter indeed and I've joined twitter so I can tweet Lenkov because I love this show and also Alex so much that I would be heartbroken if they did mess it up).

[darksea]

Welcome to the board.

However, as somebody who works with the TV and Movie Industry, I have to disagree with you on several points.

For one, the demographics aren't the most important, it is overall viewers. Jericho had a 3.9 share throughout its ratings history, and still got cancelled because the overall viewership was down. Moonlight, Heroes, Friday Night Lights, etc. were all similar, where they led the demographic, but the overall viewership was down, and they were cancelled, or had to have fan efforts bring them back.

CBS viewerline has also stated that there is a ratings slip as well.

TBTN has been wrong on quite a few renewals before. As you noted, the demo drives advertising, but in the modern day where they are now including the DVR+ stats, the advertising no longer drives the renewal index.

Now, on a legitimate point, the overall viewers is still not dramatically bad. You drop below that 7 million mark, and there will be freakage, but 9-10 million is definitely compeditive.

[hollyladyyb]

Hi Darksea - actually Moonlight got okay overall viewers and a lousy demo which is why it was canned. It was getting 8 0r 9 million viewers but some weeks its demo was down to 2 or lower. Jericho also dropped off in the demo too it only got 2.6 for its first ep of season two and went down from there. Moonlight was 30 out of CBS scripted shows for demo when it was canned. That is terribly low. I don't know where you got 3.9 for Jericho but it is wrong. It went down to the 2.3's when it got canned.
According to Advertising Age in general the demo number is way more important than the overall viewers number they give the example ''during the 2007–08 season, Grey's Anatomy was able to charge $419,000 per commercial, compared to only $248,000 for a commercial during CSI, despite CSI having almost five million more viewers on average, due to higher demo.''

And this is from Blast magazine explaining ratings: ''Why doesn’t total viewership matter? Because television shows run on ad revenue, or the money sold to advertisers for the commercials that air 8.5 minutes per half hour, or 17 minutes per hour.
These ad spots are sold based on viewership in the 18-49 demographic, the region that advertisers have targeted the most, and thus pay for. So while “NCIS” is watched by many more total people than “Grey’s,” the ABC show still commands more in ad revenue and is considered a bigger hit.''

Then we have the New York Times, no less, explaining why the demo matters way more - using the example of Idol and DWTS where DWTS has a bit more viewers but Idol has way better demo figures and is therefore considered a bigger hit by sponsors and advertisers - ''Why the huge disparity? Because the two shows, while now close in overall viewers, have vastly different audience profiles. These can be summed up in simple terms: “Dancing” is heavily female and older; “Idol” is heavily female and younger.''

Here's the link to the article if anyone is interested: www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/business/media/07adco.html

The DVR stats are great because they show other things like a shows potential audience for syndication deals etc but they don't help a show get the money in from advertisers and without that a show can't work because only the adverts pay for the show! You even said yourself the demo brings in the bucks. So why would you then think that overall viewers matter more when they bring in no money for the network?

I am honestly not trying to start a fight here, lol - not on my first day. And I think the demo focus sucks. But it is much more important than overall viewers.

[Dannos Dani]

This whole ratings thing is a science well above the average brain, which I barely have....
in any case, we're still doing OK, and hopefully TPTB will come to their senses and give us back our show. We'll see what happens next week, hopefully no ball playing or whatever that can skew the ratings.